[Nobody] Log.Horizon.S01E01.Dual.Audio.AI.Detailed

Comments - 20

2020-09-13 21:14 UTC (edited)

Not exactly interpolation, it is actually machine AI trained to increase detail using neural networks, not bit by bit comparison and interpolation, which is noisy. iAHD is already encoded, true, however I could not find a blu-ray source seeded. I'd suggest taking a look, which is why I included a small HB encode, which the difference is already noticeable. If it peaks your interest, then download the raw file. If not, no worries, your opinion is valid just as anybody elses.

Ingenioussubs

2020-09-13 21:15 UTC (edited)

Like I said, nvm. I deleted my comment. Do your thing. Could care less anymore.

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-13 21:20 UTC

>Ingenioussubs > >Like I said, nvm. I deleted my comment. Do your thing. Could care less anymore. Thanks for your input.

tommyjerry

2020-09-13 21:25 UTC

ref=4:bframes=8:frame-threads=4:no-strong-intra-smoothing:psy-rd=2:aq-strength=0.9:deblock=1,1:aq-mode=3 Quality 20 RF H.265 10bit Framerate Same as Source Encoder Preset Slow All filter options Off Audio AAC Passthru (or FLAC Passthru, no need to lower the audio quality for a few mb size difference) Then use mkvtool to mux anything I need. I use these settings to keep episodes under 300mb, no noticeable changes from source.

Tsukudakobashi

2020-09-13 22:09 UTC (edited)

You could just revert the upscale by [descaling](https://github.com/Irrational-Encoding-Wizardry/guide.encode.moe/blob/6fb296978eef9dd33a4856217027c1a5d984e34b/encoding/descaling.md) (not downscaling) then use a better upscaler. In your comparison there seems to be major altering of brightness which fucks with the color balance. Some of the signs become almost blindingly bright. I recommend using higher settings than CRF 20 unless your aim is to introduce a lot of detail loss. If you want to save bitrate, consider a light BM3D denoise. In any case, Handbrake won't take you far and will not yield optimal results.

Simplistic

2020-09-13 22:12 UTC (edited)

That's pretty cool actually

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-13 22:14 UTC (edited)

>Tsukudakobashi > >You could just revert the upscale by descaling (not downscaling) then use a better upscaler. In your comparison there seems to be major altering of brightness which fucks with the color balance. Some of the signs become almost blindingly bright. >I recommend using higher settings than CRF 20 unless your aim is to introduce a lot of detail loss. Awesome information! Thanks! I may play around with descaling before attempting using the AI software. With x265 10-bit, you think CRF 21 introduces a lot of detail loss? I know for x264 I would keep it between 18-21, depending on the source, but I've heard you can go slightly higher for x265. I've been pretty happy with my personal encodes, but I can adjust my settings and try looking at it again, esp with trying the additional options that tommyjerry gave.

Tsukudakobashi

2020-09-13 22:31 UTC

@NullZeroNobody If you are taking these values from Handbrake, please know that they are more accurate for live action than they are animation. The standard for x264 is ~CRF16 (+/-2), and for x265 you can increase the CRF by 1-1.5 compared to x264, roughly. If you take the time to figure out how to descale in Vapoursynth ([consider this guide](https://guide.encode.moe/)) you might as well add a light BM3D denoise (sigma =<1.5) and save on the bitrate that way. Also Topaz AI looks like snake oil to me with how it is being advertised. Just seems like upscaling with moozzi memery.

TGminer

2020-09-13 22:41 UTC (edited)

BDMVs? [It's yours my friend.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuP0OJOzNKA) https://weeb.ztgasdf.workers.dev/0:/Log%20Horizon/[BDMV]%20Log%20Horizon%20[Vol.1~8Fin][JP]/[BDMV]%20Log%20Horizon%20[Vol.1~8Fin][JP]/# https://weeb.ztgasdf.workers.dev/0:/Log%20Horizon/[BDMV]%20Log%20Horizon%20S2%20[Vol.1~8Fin][JP]/[BDMV]%20Log%20Horizon%20Season%202%20[Vol.1~8Fin][JP]/

warui

2020-09-13 22:50 UTC

I agree with Tsukudakobashi by using a low CRF you're decreasing the goal you were aiming for by increasing the chance of losing details especially since this is a re-encode. To be honest I don't think you should use Topaz on modern animation like Log Horizon as mentioned it's color balance and may have scenes where detail get loss due to the increase brightness. Might help on old sources that are blurry but that's just a guess but might be more suitable to live action stuff. And might be better to grab the actual BD's that TGminer linked to instead of a re-encode. @tommyjerry I didn't see it with your comment but I'd also suggest turning off SAO as well as that destroys details like intra-smoothing.

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-13 22:57 UTC

@Tsukudakobashi That guide is awesome, thank you for the link! @TGminer Awesome! I'll use those in this project In reference to the brightness, that particular screenshot may be not optimal as an example. While watching program execute, you see a side-by-side of before and after frame as it processes (in this use case, 1-2 seconds per frame to process). Looking at that, you can often see that the lines detailing the face, hair, clothing is sharper, and with a more defined line and boundary instead of a fading pallett into whatever color is adjacent to it. Backgrounds appear more detailed, but not in an artificial way. I've played with this program for a while, and it works best as long as the reference material is high quality, and was curious to explore what could be done with it. I'll try to post better examples in a few hours.

ThornBindHostage

2020-09-14 00:15 UTC

Let's hope the upcoming third season gets sharper. And were lossless FLAC files not sufficient? What TV are you using since it's probably not a new Sony TV w/ latest firmware updates and the best processor.

JustSayNo2Funi

2020-09-14 01:42 UTC (edited)

What you have here might be interesting to check out because it's AI. But the amount of bandwidth x season 1 and possibly - s2 could eat up as much as half a terrabyte. Storage is finite. meaning a disposable file 8GB@24:30mm:ss is overkill. The AI has gone plaid (see Spaceballs). Encoders today don't seem to care if what they create is deleted. Files have become bloated way beyond whats needed over the last 10 years. Files use to made to last and playable on almost any kind of player. There use to be a common understanding between everyone. 12 files@<30min each. = 4.7GB. (1 DVDROM) Since x265 was jammed down our throats. It truly was. Anime stopped being shared off the www. If you have an old source with blurry resolution, x265 has a purpose. Other than that x264 is all anyone needs. IMO X265 is wasted time on 99% of encodes. Every file iv'e re-encoded back to x264 ends up smaller with no change in picture quality. The current mind set if 8 is good, then 10 is better. It's ludicrous to give up versatility for 2 bits when increasing frame rate does the same thing. Most of the time I use a homebrew encoder that consist of a .bat file and x264 codec. try it out if interested, Put this in plain file w/out () ( x264 --preset veryfast --tune animation --crf 18 -o %1.8bit.mkv %1 ) then save it as anyname.bat Change the CRF as desired. Put both the .bat and x264 codec in the same folder. drop a x265 encode on your .bat 1min every100mb +/-est. most are done in 5 mins Then use MKVToolNIX to merge new video file with the audio, subs etc. that's it. Nothing else is required. Can't get any easier. As for a third season. If funi has anything to do with it were going to be disappointed one way or another. Everyone needs to realise many years ago they setup shop in japan and started producing shows for a number of reasons. cheaper to license, and they get to control production from start to finish. We have all see results. Or can you say its all still made with unrelenting perfectionism.

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-14 03:34 UTC

>ThornBindHostage > >Let’s hope the upcoming third season gets sharper. > >And were lossless FLAC files not sufficient? What TV are you using since it’s probably not a new Sony TV w/ latest firmware updates and the best processor. LG 75UK6190, not near top of the line, but overall good picture quality, and calibrated. I'm real tempted to pick up the new Nvidia Shield TV with the AI upscaling, but that's a cheat lol. Source files were DTS-HD, not FLAC, and Plex on the Smart TV doesn't want to pass through DTS to my amplifier (need to mess around with it, the Plex update broke it, and it's not an obvious fix such as the toggle for DTS audio passthrough), so I use AAC for ease of use. Generally speaking, for anime I use AAC unless it's an awesome soundtrack/favorite show, otherwise it will be FLAC. This time I just used the last preset used in handbrake. Again, the raw file is what was outputted from Topaz Video Enhance AI without any modifications.

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-14 04:05 UTC

>JustSayNo2Funi > >What you have here might be interesting to check out because it’s AI. But the amount of bandwidth x season 1 and possibly - s2 could eat up as much as half a terrabyte. Storage is finite. meaning a disposable file 8GB@24:30mm:ss is overkill. The AI has gone plaid (see Spaceballs). Encoders today don’t seem to care if what they create is deleted. Files have become bloated way beyond whats needed over the last 10 years. Files use to made to last and playable on almost any kind of player. There use to be a common understanding between everyone. 12 files@<30min each. = 4.7GB. (1 DVDROM) Since x265 was jammed down our throats. It truly was. Anime stopped being shared off the www. Understood, however what I am trying to do is to increase the detail past what is present in the original file (I will be experimenting with actual BD files soonish). This was impossible until the advent of AI and machine learning/training, tensor cores and CUDA (a la deepfakes and such), and not reliably in consumer hands until the past year or so. 8tb for 1 episode is insane, I'll grant you that, however it's the reference point from which you would be encoding to a different format (such as x264/x265 from BD). 8tb/episode is not the endgame, but the intermediary. Plus, when I try to play it on a 1Gbit connection from my server to my TV, Plex chokes on it.

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-14 04:05 UTC

From what I understand, the program sequentially goes through each frame, analyzes it, does the corrections and spits out a PNG. It then merges all the PNG's into 1 mp4 file, and then muxes in AAC audio (transcoding by itself if need be. I fed it the iAHD file which is DTS-HD, and got AAC). The codec is ISOM, which, from what I've found through google-fu, is completely uncompressed. So, basically it's a MP4 time-lapse of all the PNG files at 29.94fps with an audio line muxed in. Every single frame is full detail, not an algorithm of what changes in what section from one frame to the next. There is a ton of space to be saved with the right transcode, be it x264 or x265. Complete name : [Nobody] Log.Horizon.S01E01.AI.Detailed/Log.Horizon.S01E01.1080p.Blu-Ray.AI.Detail.RAW.mp4 Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : Base Media Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41) File size : 7.85 GiB Duration : 24mn 32s Overall bit rate : 45.8 Mbps Writing application : Lavf58.29.100

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-14 06:11 UTC (edited)

Updated OP with more side-by-side comparison pics. [Direct link to Imgur Album](https://imgur.com/a/czoZxUZ) I did notice that the colors are a bit off, which is something I will have to check for when I try using the BD files. Those that downloaded the raw, let me know what you think!

Roni_Nicholas

2020-09-14 08:01 UTC

@NullZeroNobody You can make comparisons in [here](https://slow.pics/)so it's easy to see

Avostear

2020-09-17 01:26 UTC

Love seeing Log Horizon getting some attention. At least to my untrained eye the images are crisp and clear beyond a simple sharpen and contrast filter. Some colors seem a little off like the sky in the main image and there seem to be maybe higher saturation in the 2nd side by side, but to be honest these are way better than what I had originally! Overall love it, pair it with a signs/songs subtitle for dubbed viewers and this will be a great DL! Great job!

NullZeroNobody (uploader)

2020-09-19 23:29 UTC

>Avostear > >Love seeing Log Horizon getting some attention. At least to my untrained eye the images are crisp and clear beyond a simple sharpen and contrast filter. Some colors seem a little off like the sky in the main image and there seem to be maybe higher saturation in the 2nd side by side, but to be honest these are way better than what I had originally! > >Overall love it, pair it with a signs/songs subtitle for dubbed viewers and this will be a great DL! > >Great job! Thanks! I found out that the reason for the color change is that Topaz Video Enhance AI outputs a file that is in a different colorspace than the original file, something that I'm researching to see if I can fix. Another issue that I found in the forums is that the gamma is also slightly different, and needs to be adjusted by .02. So, I may have to run the file through a video editing program to get the colorspace and gamma correct to match the original. A little bit more work than I initially thought, but not insurmountable.

[Nobody] Log.Horizon.S01E01.Dual.Audio.AI.Detailed

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Comments - 20